RexSystem1 voteoriginally by @Shardion on GitHub1 reply
I suppose I should make my case here as well. I've often mentioned that it's a bad idea to add a feature which significantly reduces usability, for only a selection of people, who cannot control if the feature is implemented. I think this is a good example of such a feature, since:
It significantly reduces usability, by restricting the editing and deleting of messages
But, it only affects people who often revise or make mistakes with their messages (me), which may not be the same people who are at the levers to enable it
It is controlled by community administrators, and there is no way to get around it, beyond pleading to them to have it removed
Given the above, I believe that, in its current form, this should not be a feature which Fluxer offers.
One of three explicitly-mentioned use cases is to prevent "edit trolling", which I do not see as an issue that Fluxer should attempt to solve. This is a social issue, and technical measures scarcely solve the underlying tensions that cause social issues, so, it should be the job of moderators to take reports, spot edit trolling, and maybe tell the problematic users to cut it out.
The idea of a channel where users must "stand behind what they say" feels like a poor one. I don't see a point to it, beyond inviting harassment, and forcing any messages to permanently mark someone, short of having them delete their account.
Giveaways, and other systems requiring one unchanging entry, would probably be a legitimate use for this, but, bots already exist to provide systems like this, so I don't think it will be worth the potential harm, and effort to implement.
A one-time notice is easily ignored, and users may have seen and subsequently forgotten about it, even before the edit-blocking becomes relevant to them. It does not otherwise do anything to resolve the issues with edit-blocking, so I don't think it's sufficient to let this feature exist.
Blocking edits and deletions also interacts poorly with the user's right to be forgotten, as it were. One of Fluxer's goals is to have better data privacy than Discord, and that comes with the option to delete anything, at any time. It would be possible to have users be unable to delete individual messages, only deleting them in bulk deletions of entire channels or communities, but, given the concept of adding a one-time notice, there is an implication that these channels are meant to be sectioned-off spaces, where users do not frequently post. I doubt that users will mind losing one or two other messages, if it gives them the option to delete something that they said, resulting in everyone using the bulk deletion route to circumvent the permission.
I doubt that a time window which allows edits and deletions will help, since I personally edit and delete messages long after, say, five minutes have passed since their sending. This is often to correct typos, which is arguably not important, but also to update information in living messages, ones that are pinned or linked to in some form.
If Fluxer.com has to disable a feature, instance-wide, due to safety and privacy concerns, that isn't a very good argument in favor of giving the feature to other instances. Personally, I do not believe that platform features should be removable, purely because they technically can be, which is how I interpret your argument here. Do you have any more example use-cases for this feature, which might justify its inclusion?
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Comment by @Shardion
- It significantly reduces usability, by restricting the editing and deleting of messages
- But, it only affects people who often revise or make mistakes with their messages (me), which may not be the same people who are at the levers to enable it
- It is controlled by community administrators, and there is no way to get around it, beyond pleading to them to have it removed
Given the above, I believe that, in its current form, this should not be a feature which Fluxer offers. One of three explicitly-mentioned use cases is to prevent "edit trolling", which I do not see as an issue that Fluxer should attempt to solve. This is a social issue, and technical measures scarcely solve the underlying tensions that cause social issues, so, it should be the job of moderators to take reports, spot edit trolling, and maybe tell the problematic users to cut it out. The idea of a channel where users must "stand behind what they say" feels like a poor one. I don't see a point to it, beyond inviting harassment, and forcing any messages to permanently mark someone, short of having them delete their account. Giveaways, and other systems requiring one unchanging entry, would probably be a legitimate use for this, but, bots already exist to provide systems like this, so I don't think it will be worth the potential harm, and effort to implement. A one-time notice is easily ignored, and users may have seen and subsequently forgotten about it, even before the edit-blocking becomes relevant to them. It does not otherwise do anything to resolve the issues with edit-blocking, so I don't think it's sufficient to let this feature exist. Blocking edits and deletions also interacts poorly with the user's right to be forgotten, as it were. One of Fluxer's goals is to have better data privacy than Discord, and that comes with the option to delete anything, at any time. It would be possible to have users be unable to delete individual messages, only deleting them in bulk deletions of entire channels or communities, but, given the concept of adding a one-time notice, there is an implication that these channels are meant to be sectioned-off spaces, where users do not frequently post. I doubt that users will mind losing one or two other messages, if it gives them the option to delete something that they said, resulting in everyone using the bulk deletion route to circumvent the permission. I doubt that a time window which allows edits and deletions will help, since I personally edit and delete messages long after, say, five minutes have passed since their sending. This is often to correct typos, which is arguably not important, but also to update information in living messages, ones that are pinned or linked to in some form.Comment by @Shardion